Interviewed on the program. The status of the sitehere with audio in full version, in relation to the publication of the book. “Connect: a reflection on Portuguese foreign policy from 2015 to 2022″In this last part of the interview, the former head of Portuguese diplomacy and current president of the Assembly of the Republic, talks about the capabilities of the country’s foreign policy, the mandates of António Guterres and the urgency of climate action.
Why can a country that has a small geographical size be considered, as the book says, and recognized as such, a bridge builder, a bridge maker in diplomacy?
Precisely because the world needs two things at the same time. I have no illusions about this. You need what used to be called the balance of power, big countries or big blocs: the United States, the EU, Russia, China, India, Brazil, the former Non-Aligned group. Therefore, they can be individual countries or blocks that have relations that are, at the same time, one of tension and communication between them. And so there is this balance of power. And once again, Portugal’s great advantage is that it has a completely clear position regarding this balance of power. We belong to the European Union and we belong to the Atlantic Alliance. Therefore, we belong to the West. But at the same time the world needs something more. Someone is needed, in the middle of this, to go through the interstices of this, to be able to communicate, to be able, being in Brussels recognized as a member of the EU, not to have any difficulties when in Buenos Aires. Aires, to speak with the local interlocutor, when they are in Montevideo to find out what links exist between Portugal and Uruguay. And the same in India or even in Southeast Asia, the same in Central Asia and so on. And therefore, Portugal, which is not a great power, is a medium-sized country in the EU, part of that great regulatory and economic and security bloc as well, which is the EU. It is, at the same time, a European country that historically was formed on interstitial roads. Thus, on this journey through several cultures, several traditions, several stories. I am going to tell you something. I got along extraordinarily well with my French colleague in 2016 and we joked a lot with each other. Regarding the Euro Cup final, which was in Paris and Portugal beat France, he acknowledged when I told him ‘well, you see that in Lisbon people were for Portugal’. In Paris there were people in France but there were also many people in Portugal. But in Luanda people were in favor of Portugal. And in Algiers? And we both laughed. Because there is greater proximity to Portugal…
Not all countries have the same relations with the former colonized peoples as Portugal…
Clear. Another example: as you know, because this is public, when engineer António Guterres was running for Secretary General of the United Nations, among the permanent members, the first to support Guterres from the beginning and campaign heavily for Guterres was France. . The second to clearly define its position was China. And when later we sometimes ask the Chinese interlocutors, why was it so fast? One of the answers we had was this: ‘because we have known each other for 500 years; We have known the Portuguese for 500 years. Of course, they then added: António Guterres was prime minister when Macau made the transition and we know the commitments he made and the way in which he fulfilled them. Therefore, when during the Portuguese presidency of the European Union we spoke with the president of the European Council to find out what foreign policy achievement our presidency should mark, and we agreed that it was India, we knew and he knew that it was easier for us to be we who do this; how it was, because we know each other, we have relationships, we have presence. The presence of Portuguese heritage in some Indian states is relevant. And, in general, people recognize two things in us. First of all, that great capacity that some call universalist. I won’t go that far. This ability to feel comfortable in different historical, cultural and geopolitical contexts of the world; this first. And then, our moderation, because as we are a country without economic, demographic or military power, our capacity comes from our ability to use the gentle forcer. For the book begins with a chapter that seeks to answer the question: What are the key characteristics of our influence in the world? And the answer is always elements of the call. soft power: the diaspora, the language, the constancy of our foreign policy, the ease with which we are in international relations and the fact that we do not cultivate hostility, but moderation, communication, mediation. That’s why we are good bridge builders.
You have already mentioned António Guterres . Now, some assessment has been made, even taking into account that Guterres ended up taking with Trump’s election, the pandemic of two wars, what he thinks of his mandates. Could he have done better?
I have a certain prejudice, I distrust because I was António Guterres’ minister, I previously worked with him in the States General and in the PS and I greatly admire him for his human, political and intellectual qualities. I always say that the most difficult orders I had over 15 years in government were those I had with António Guterres when he was Minister of Culture, such was the immensity of his knowledge about Portuguese culture and the Portuguese territory that sometimes I He was a little confused when responding to so many requests that he could make spontaneously. done this disclaimerAs they say now, I believe that António Guterres’ mandate, whether it be his first or this second, are excellent mandates. Because? First, because of the circumstances. In fact, the election of António Guterres occurred in a context in which there was no reason to predict that the Democrats would not win the elections in the United States and, therefore, we knew that he would have a wonderful relationship with Hillary Clinton. But Hillary Clinton didn’t win. This is António Guterres’s first major test in which he had to compromise all of his enormous political and diplomatic qualities. It was precisely his collaboration, his coexistence with President Donald Trump. Then, like I said, the pandemic hit. Above all, there was a Security Council strike, which is horrible. The United Nations Security Council has been, in practice, paralyzed for several years due to crossed vetoes. And the Security Council is the main body when it comes to the peace and security dimension, which, in turn, is the main mission of the UN from a more public point of view.
Can the United Nations hold on to this for long? Can they survive this for long?
We don’t believe it. And that is why we believe that the United Nations should no longer be led by an organization that crystallized in 1946, because the Security Council is the four winners of World War II, plus China. And today the world is more than that and therefore an African country is needed. a Latin American country, a South Asian country, at least as permanent members of the Security Council. And, at the same time, the permanent members of the Council should no longer have that absolute power of veto, under any circumstances and based on their own strictly national interests or that of a bloc. Now, what I am saying is that António Guterres, in my opinion, will be remembered for two great essential marks that he will leave: first, the clarity with which he defined the survival of humanity, the end of, as he says, war. of humanity with nature as its main objective. He is the… I don’t say the prophet, because, although sometimes he seems to shout in the desert, he is the lawyer, he is the one who is not always there and, if I may say so, he is the annoying one who always tells us: Attention , if we do not solve the climate problem, we run the risk of disappearing.
And every time he talks about it he makes more and more serious statements…
United Nations values as an essential reference. That which we really like to invoke, but that we often forget to apply. And, therefore, the clear and assertive way, without any type of ambiguity and also without any type of fear, with which he has requested a ceasefire in the current Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He has said: ‘Attention, we have to understand well the motivations of both parties, we have to realize that the solution to the conflict involves first the existence and security of Israel and the dignity of the Palestinians; that the occupation is also one of the reasons that leads to extreme positions among some Palestinians, that we cannot confuse a people, the Palestinians, with an organization, Hamas, etc. and that has earned him so much criticism, but also so much praise and a way that clearly defines what the Secretary General of the United Nations does as Secretary General of the United Nations. And I think he does what he’s supposed to do.
But there was a political consensus (and this is also mentioned in the book), particularly between the two main Portuguese parties, regarding the election of engineer António Guterres. I think he even praised both the position of President Cavaco Silva and that of Pedro Passos Coelho. But suddenly, after the recent speech of the UN Secretary General, after the events of October 7, it seems that there was almost a division in which those close to the Socialist Party or the more left-wing parties understood António Guterres’ speech and Those who are further to the right, or, if we want, from the PSD to the right, were very critical of Guterres’ expression that the attack was not born in a vacuum.
Which is natural. The only disturbing thing we see in Portugal and in many other European countries is to see the center right a little divided and a part of the center right pursuing the arguments of the extreme right.
It is very interesting for analysis, but what remains for readers of the book is what it explains about the indices, the rankings, particularly taking into account instruments such as V-Dem or The Economist. But what I want to ask you is about what you admit are the failures in the functioning of administrative transparency and the level of effectiveness of social and civic participation in the country. Whose responsibility is it? Of the Government of which you were part? From the predecessor? Of the successor? Can and should a President of the Republic do more on these issues?
You will surely have noticed that the level in which the book is situated is not the level of daily life, of political debate. I think it is a responsibility of all of us, it is a responsibility of Portuguese society. Because when we look at these characterizations or evaluations, that is, the quality of our democracy, we notice that we are evaluated with the best performance in electoral competitiveness, electoral transparency, freedom of action and where we are evaluated the worst is in electoral participation due to our levels of abstention and also in a certain opacity or less proximity of the administration to the citizens. And this implies actions on the part of the administration, but also on the part of the citizens.
What could multinational companies and foreign policy do or not do between 2015 and 2022 to improve these areas?
Well, these areas are mainly internal. What foreign policy can do and what diplomacy has done is precisely to take advantage of the elements that characterize us positively, because diplomacy is also a policy. External action is also a very competitive type of action since it imposes the image of one person or another. And this fight for the most positive possible image of a country is an obligation, of course, for any diplomat and also for whoever directs it at all times.
Professor Augusto Santos Silva, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Source: TSF
